Living With Fire Podcast
Living With Fire Podcast
Christmas Tree Cutting
Cutting your own Christmas tree is more than a fun way to get outdoors and create lasting memories. On the latest episode of the Living With Fire Podcast, we cover the ins and outs of cutting your own Christmas tree with Jennifer Diamond, Fire Mitigation Specialist with the Bureau of Land Management (BLM), Carson City District, and Tessa Putz with the University of Nevada, Reno Extension. They explain how cutting your own Christmas tree can help restore Nevada's rangelands and thin-out overgrown landscapes, reducing the risk of high-intensity wildfire. Diamond also shares how to get your permit, what the rules are and some tips for cutting your tree on BLM lands in Nevada. Learn more below.
- To purchase a permit to cut a Christmas tree on Bureau of Land Management land in Nevada go to https://forestproducts.blm.gov/
- To purchase a permit to cut a Christmas Tree in the Humboldt-Toiyabe National Forest go to https://www.fs.usda.gov/detail/htnf/home/?cid=FSEPRD564027
For more full episode details including the transcript, visit https://www.buzzsprout.com/1819551/episodes/9653485
Welcome to the Living with Fire Podcast where we share stories and resources to help you live more safely with wildfire. Hi. I'm your host, Megan Kay and the Outreach Coordinator for the Living with Fire Program. And I'm joined by my boss, Jamie Roice-Gomes, Hi, Jamie.
Jamie Roice-Gomes:Hi Megan.
Megan Kay:So we are here to talk about the podcast that you're about to listen to, which is about cutting your own Christmas tree on BLM land in Carson City. So we talked with or not Carson City, sorry, the Carson Range District, which we kind of talked about. You'll hear in the podcast how far that reaches. But our guest was we got to talk with Jen Diamond, who's a mitigation expert at BLM. And we're also joined by Tessa Putz, who works for Living with Fire as a Natural Resource Associate. And so they kind of talk about the ecology and everything you need to know about cutting your Christmas tree. Does that make sense? What am I missing Jamie?
Jamie Roice-Gomes:No, that makes sense. I think it's typically. We've only talked about cutting down Christmas trees in the US Forest Service, Humboldt-Toiyabi area. But I really like how we have broadened our information range, and we've we are now talking about cutting down the different trees in the Bureau of Land Management and land and so I think it was a really great informational and interesting podcast for folks.
Megan Kay:Thanks for joining us. Enjoy the episode.
Tessa Putz:Hi everyone. My name is Tessa Putz. I'm a Natural Resources Associate with the Living with Fire Program, and my work mainly focuses on the science communication side, so I do a lot of work translating and distilling current science into educational resources like fact sheets or guides or websites. And so a big part of what I'm working on right now is the Pinyon-Juniper Encroachment Education Program. So I yeah, so I will. I've learned a lot about that, and have a lot to Yeah,
Megan Kay:you. And that ties in a lot to with what we're talking talk about. today, talking about today. And then, so Jen, do you mind introducing us and letting us know your what you what you do, your job title? And then if you don't mind going into a little bit of kind of your history and how you got to your position.
Jennifer Diamond:Okay so, yeah, thanks for having me today. My name is Jennifer Diamond, and I work for the Bureau of Land Management as a Fire Prevention Education Mitigation Specialist. So pretty long title. That's because we kind of cover a lot of different things, so I go around and try to educate the public on how they can help with fire prevention. So I go to schools and events and do social media to get the word out on what our causes are and how we can help prevent them. And so I also investigate fires so that I can determine what the cause is, so we know where to focus our efforts. I also am a Public Information Officer, so that just kind of all goes hand in hand with trying to relay the message out to the public, and just a really big advocate for mitigation work. And what we are doing out there on BLM, administered plans. And kind of how I got into this position is I have 18 years with the Forest Service. I just recently left that position as a Fire Prevention Officer, which is very similar to the position that I'm doing right now. And prior to that, I have worked on engines and hand crews and did some time with the fire use module. So I did some suppression work for about nine years before I got into prevention.
Megan Kay:I've really enjoyed working with you, by the way, since I've been here.
Jennifer Diamond:Ah, thank you. I really enjoy working with all of you at Living with Fire.
Megan Kay:Aw, thank. Thank you. So we're here today to kind of pick your brain about the Christmas tree cutting program. So for people who aren't aware this, this program exists on public lands, so BLM and Forest Service lands, and it's program where people can buy permits and go cut their own Christmas tree. And I, at least that's what I know about it. But I wanted to ask you the expert, could you kind of just explain what the what the program is?
Jennifer Diamond:Yeah, so just kind of like you said, by obtaining a permit, that program allows the purchaser to cut trees on Bureau of Land Management administered plans. The permits are specifically for pinyon pine and junipers. That's the only tree species that is allowed to be harvested with this kind of permit on BLM lands. So the Christmas tree cutting program is also used to thin the range lands in those dense areas, those unhealthy stands of trees, we can get in there and just kind of thin it out by allowing the the range lands users to get in there and and take a tree. It also better assists firefighters with reaching fire containment. The less vegetation that we have out there that are all encroaching upon each other. It ultimately helps slow the fire spread, and it also opens up areas for wildlife to forage so there's a multi purpose here where we are allowing people to have that adventure of getting their Christmas tree, and also reducing the fuels out there for firefighters and for the public to ultimately be more safe and hoping to slow the fire spread.
Megan Kay:Just out of curiosity, do you know how many people participate and cut trees down? Maybe from your experience with the Forest Service as well.
Jennifer Diamond:I want to say on Carson City District, I heard somewhere around 1600 permits are generally issued for BLM Carson City District. I can't really put a number or speak to the other areas.
Megan Kay:That's a lot of trees, that's a lot of thinning that could possibly be done.
Jennifer Diamond:Yeah it is.
Jamie Roice-Gomes:And Jen, when you say the Carson City District, do you that's where you work, right?
Jennifer Diamond:It is, I wasn't specific to that in the beginning, wasn't I?
Jamie Roice-Gomes:Would you mind telling folks where the Carson City District is?
Jennifer Diamond:Yeah. So the Carson City district runs all up and down the Sierra front and all the way east towards Austin, almost so it covers a really large area.
Megan Kay:84% of wildfires nationwide are caused by people. If you're planning on heading out and enjoying public lands, visit nevadafireinfo.org and learn how you can recreate responsibly and do your part to prevent wildfires. So my next question for you would be, and you definitely covered this, but if you have anything to add, go for it. But it was just, how does tree cutting impact the range and ecosystems? And just kind of explain, explain why it's good for the ecosystem to do, to cut your own Christmas tree and to go in there. I think it's I think it's great that it it makes sense to me that it for wildfire risk mitigation, reducing the risk and going in there and getting rid of those, those hazardous fields. But as far as you know, myself, I'm kind of a layman when it comes to to ecology. I'm learning, yeah, it could you drop some knowledge about just the the effect that it has on the ecosystem.
Jennifer Diamond:So I guess I like to look at it as it's a part of active forest management, and that overall is good for the ecosystems. It's an important part of, like you said, reducing the risk of fire in the forest or range lands, and to make the range lands healthier overall. And so by allowing, like a small harvest of trees over an area, can improve the range lands by doing that thinning like we were talking about, and we do a similar thing on a much larger scale. Scale with our Fuels Program. So we have projects all over the state working to reduce fuels. And so I kind of look at it from a fire prevention mitigation standpoint, as that's what this program is doing on a little bit of a smaller scale there. So when you talk about, you know, it being healthy. All of those trees out there are ultimately competing with one another. So many of them will ultimately die from kind of fighting each other for the same sunlight and and water. So by fitting them, the ones that we leave behind are going to be much healthier than if we left them crowded and fighting for survival. So when you do go out there and pick a tree, it's best to pick one from an area that is over stocked and really dense, just a little thicket area, if you can find a nice one in there, that's the best to do. So that we're we're reaching that goal of creating some spacing between the trees.
Megan Kay:Yeah, that's a great point, because I feel like when people are going out to cut their Christmas trees. They're probably not thinking about that. They're just thinking about, you know, what's the prettiest tree that they want to take home? So I also wanted to kind of pivot and ask Tessa some questions about pinion and juniper encroachment on the rangelands, because that's your specialty.
Tessa Putz:Yeah, I would, yeah, I'd love to speak to that a little bit. Jen brings up some really great points about, you know, managing the landscape. And in either case, you know, we're we need to manage both landscapes, both ecosystems, for resilience. And so, you know, we have Pinyon-Juniper woodland expanding into the sagebrush rangelands, and they're out competing the shrubs and the grasses and forbs for the, you know, the resources that Jen talked about, the you know, water and sunlight and nutrients. You know, trees have these wide reaching, far reaching roots, and they can acquire a lot of these resources much more easily than the shrubs and herbaceous plants do. And so, yeah, so these are sagebrush seas are really threatened by encroachment and but they, you know, they have their own value. They support, you know, a lot of ecosystem services like carbon sequestration and soil stability. And they also provide, you know, a lot of habitat for wildlife. We all know. A lot of us probably know about the sage grouse, but there's many other species that are specifically dependent upon and then also, like the game, that use it as well. They'll use the woodland, and they'll use the sagebrush ecosystems as well. And so, yeah, it's, it's important, but to, you know, to improve the resilience of the sage brush, but then also the the woodland as well. You know, within filling we've had, you know, these forests become a lot more dense. And yeah, we need to, you know, in, in these, under these, you know, more stressful conditions that we're seeing, we need to reduce the number of trees, which, you know, by cutting, having people come in and cut. That's a great way, great way to do that.
Megan Kay:Yeah, I was always this just as an anecdote when I was getting out, you know, first sort of discovering Nevada as an adult, and like going out into the to the country, in the back country, I didn't really understand the term rangeland, because to me, it always it just seemed like a forest. And then now that I'm getting I understand, like the background in the ecology a little bit, and the encroachment of these pinyon and pinyon trees and junipers. It's like, okay, so there's, it wasn't meant to be, like, dense, dense stands of pinyon and juniper Not, not necessarily. So it's, it's been interesting to it's like a shift, because it's what I was used to growing up. You know, it's like, I'm used to, this is just the the landscape. And then when you think about it in terms of, like, these are actually encroaching and sucking up all the water out of the soil, and it's really kind of a paradigm shift, and like, the way I look at Nevada and the landscape. So thank you guys for giving the background on on that ecology. I. Think that we did talk a lot about the what thinning and cutting these trees does for hazardous wildland fuel mitigation, and to kind of unpack that term, meaning that that build up of all these hazardous fuels creates potential fuel for wildfire. I said that really poorly. So maybe Jen, you could unpack that term for everybody, just the the term of just hazardous wildland fuels. And then also, if you wanted to add anything more to how cutting your Christmas tree helps with that effort.
Jennifer Diamond:Okay, yeah. So when we talk about hazardous fuels and reducing fuels, and these projects that we're doing, the objective there is to remove enough vegetation so that when a wildfire does burn in that area, it's less severe and can be more easily managed. So when that vegetation accumulates, it allows fires to burn much hotter, much faster. The flame lengths are higher, the embers get thrown into the next stand of vegetation. So by by clearing out some of those small trees out of those dense areas, it's just helping and reducing those odds of those embers carrying it into the next stand of vegetation. So that's kind of what we mean when we talk about reducing fuels and having that spacing in between each other. And so like I mentioned earlier, we we have a Fuels program that works on reducing the excess vegetation, and they work through various projects such as mastication, chipping, building hand piles to burn, doing broadcast prescribed burns, having firewood cutting permit program, and also by harvesting small trees, such as this Christmas tree program. So that's kind of multiple ways that we do reduction fuels work. And so for those families that are chopping down their own trees, they're kind of, they're contributing to doing that part in thinning out the arrangements in the forest. So we're kind of killing two birds with one stone there. If you say that.
Megan Kay:I love that idea, and I feel like people would love that as well. I am inspired to do it so, and I've never done it before, so I want to move on to talking about sort of the ins and outs of cutting your own Christmas tree. But before I do, I wanted to give you guys like Jamie and Tessa a chance to add anything else about just sort of the fuels or the ecology portion of it, if you have anything else.
Tessa Putz:Yeah, I think one thing that is really interesting to think about is that with at least on the encroachment side, that, as you know, Woodland expands, the the fire regime really changes. So with, you know, encouraging trees, both the fuel structure and the amount changes. And so, you know, more trees obviously leads to more fuel and more litter, and more down would, but there's this change from more patchy surface fire that's not as continuous like within the shrubs, to with trees, fire that's in the canopy. And this connection from surface fires to camp canopy fires that are often, often need more extreme fire weather conditions to occur, and then when they do occur, there's more connectivity. And so, you know, if we can, you know, reduce the fuel loads, like the many ways that Jen talked about, reduce encroachment, that all of that is really important to do, so that we decrease high severity wildfires, or at least the potential for them.
Megan Kay:Communities located in wildfire prone areas need to take extra measures to live safely. There are many ways to prepare communities and properties for wildfire, including creating and maintaining adequate defensible space and hardening homes to withstand wildfire. This could mean altering or replacing certain components of the home. Our wildfire home retrofit guide will help you better prepare your home and communities for wildfire. You can find the guide and the resources. Section of our website at livingwithfire.com,
Jamie Roice-Gomes:I think maybe we should clarify, like, like, some terms that folks might not know, like, what's a canopy, what's herbaceous, what's mastication. Maybe we can give like, a little couple sentence, you know, explanation what those things are.
Megan Kay:Yeah, so, Jen, do you mind talking about mastication? Since you brought it up.
Jennifer Diamond:Sure, mastication is a way that we can reduce the fuels by using mechanical equipment. So for instance, we might bring in, I am forgetting the name of the the actual piece of equipment that can basically munch down all of the vegetation down to the surface.
Megan Kay:That was called a masticator.
Jennifer Diamond:Oh yeah, there's another piece of equipment that I'm thinking of besides that.
Megan Kay:And it has like the mini blades on it, basically, right? And yeah, it kind of like mows through and chops it up and crunches it over, yeah.
Jennifer Diamond:It does. And so it just kind of eats it up, it makes it real small and takes it down to the surface level.
Megan Kay:Yeah, which is something that people don't think of like that sort of mechanical treatment, for sure. And then herbaceous. Tessa you want to take that one?
Tessa Putz:Yeah. I Yes. I brought that up. So that just refers to the more leafy plants that are growing with the shrub. So that's the grasses and the forbes, which are the, you know, some of more of the wild flowers that we see. And so those all grow in these sagebrush rangelands, and are really important because they provide food and habitat for for animals, for wildlife. And then I and then I also mentioned canopy, so the canopy, canopy fires are basically in the tops of trees. Is where that those occur.
Megan Kay:Yeah, yeah, that makes sense. Good call. Jamie, yeah. Sometimes I get, I forget. You know that these, these terms, are sort of jargony. So listener, you're, I don't know if they'll if I'll include this little, my little speech here, but for the listeners out there. Bear with us. Cool. So if, if there, if there's anything else, I'll try to, I'll try to keep that in mind. So I might interrupt folks if those things do come up in the future. So the next thing I wanted to talk about are just sort of the ins and outs of cutting your own Christmas tree for folks who maybe have never done it before. And so those might include how to get your permits, or what are the rules in the etiquette, and then just kind of things that you need. And I just from talking with you, Jen, I feel like you're the expert, not just because it's your job, because you have experience cutting the trees. So I was wondering, so I will, I'm just going to defer to you tell us what to do when we're going to when we're going to cut around Christmas tree.
Jennifer Diamond:So first you're going to want to find out, I guess, how to get, how to get a permit. So you can go to forestproducts.blm.gov, and search for Nevada, and then the district that you choose to obtain a permit from. So first you get that permit, and then you you're going to want to, well, first of all, know that you can only get indian pine and junipers, and then know, pick an area that you want to go travel in, and then know, know what the weather forecast is like. Because, you know, it's always a good idea when heading into the woods at any time of the year, but especially in winter time, to just know what that weather is going to be like. And I know that I've ran into that a couple of times just trying to beat a storm and trying to time it right, so that I know that the roads are safe to travel on, and I'm not going to be cutting a tree in a blizzard with a bunch of wind. So know the weather, and I always pack, you know, I mean, like you're going to be out in in the cold, so a hat, a jacket, gloves, typical winter clothing. I also bring, of course, it's going to be probably a pretty long day. So I bring. Food, and I bring water anytime you're operating some kind of saw or equipment. It's a good idea to have a first aid kit. And then once you cut your tree, you're going to need something to bring it home with and to secure it. So bring some type of heavy rope or tie downs to secure it in your vehicle. Also when traveling on on dirt roads in the winter time, just I always like to bring a shovel or even chains, if you're going to need chains on your vehicle, yeah, just just in case that the weather isn't exactly how you planned. But I try to kind of go around that storm if there is one,
Megan Kay:Yeah, don't, don't even risk it.
Jennifer Diamond:Right. Yeah, just kind of know that some of those areas that you're used to seeing might be inaccessible by the time you choose to get out there, so it looks a little different after there's snow on the ground, and then just once you're out there and you do actually cut the tree that you choose, the stumps cannot be any higher than six inches from the ground, and they should be cut level. So a lot of people like to maybe put a slash cut in it so that it's diagonal, so that they can kind of push it over. And that's nice to get the tree on the ground, but after you do that, go back and cut it as close to the ground and as level and parallel to the ground that that you can and that's to avoid tripping hazards for the next person that's walking around out there, just not nice to see something sharp sticking out of the ground like that,
Megan Kay:Yeah. And especially if it's not, then sort of blunt cut and it's just at a angle, it's just like a spike sticking out of the ground. So not safe for the next person.
Jennifer Diamond:Yeah. And then I always kind of look in the tree to make sure that there's not a nest or any little critters living in there. Don't want to take a home from something. And then once you do cut the tree, and maybe there's some limbs or green branches that that you you don't want, you know, on the bottom to stick it into your Christmas tree stand. Just make sure that you scatter those limbs around. Don't just pile them all in one area. Just kind of looks more natural. If they're they're scattered out there.
Megan Kay:Have you guys, Jamie and Tessa? Have you guys ever cut your own Christmas tree?
Tessa Putz:No, but I can't wait to.
Jamie Roice-Gomes:Yeah, I have, but I've never cut it on BLM lands before. I typically have gotten a US Forest Service permit because I want to get a fur to cut.
Jennifer Diamond:Yeah, me too.
Megan Kay:I like pines. I like pine. My family always got pines so, so it's like, it kind of makes sense that it's, I guess it's your, your taste. You know, do you guys have any, do you have any tips then, Jamie, any things that, anything that came up from your experience that you think might be helpful for someone who's maybe trying it for the first time?
Jamie Roice-Gomes:You know, I mean, it's, you're, you're probably going to be going, you know, off roading and bring chains if you have a truck. It's obviously easier than, like, a small SUV. I have a small SUV. And I, I mean, I really want to truck, because I really hate putting my Christmas tree on top of my small SUV. But it happens, you know, that's, that's what we have. It's two we have. So I just ensure to have, you know, tie downs and bring boots and a coat. It's always colder than you think it's going to be.
Megan Kay:You know.
Jennifer Diamond:Yeah. And if you do have to stick it inside your vehicle, it's pretty handy to have a sheet or a tarp or something to lay it on to kind of help with the sap, the needles being in the sap and just the mess that's left behind, and to, like, yank it out of there.
Megan Kay:Yeah I was about to say it's like, like, a little bit of a tool to help you and get it out of there.
Jennifer Diamond:Yeah. And then Jamie mentioned roads, and I just wanted to kind of highlight using the existing roads and well traveled roads. And. Or not to create your own or to drive on one that maybe somebody else has created and it looks like a road, because that just causes resource damage, and so just take a map or don't rely on GPS systems, but having them is handy to just help you out with, what are those maintained roads and what are the more well traveled roads?
Jamie Roice-Gomes:Jen, what like what time period does this Christmas tree permit program run?
Jennifer Diamond:Yeah, so it is open now until December 24th.
Megan Kay:In case you want to get that last last, last minute Christmas tree. I mean, who knows? Like, you can think of many circumstances that that might happen, you know.
Jennifer Diamond:Yeah. And also know that when you are out there and you do get your permit, there is a stipulation page and a permit that must be in the permit to use possession while gathering and transporting the tree. So make sure that you attach that like think it's an adhesive permit to the tree so it can be seen by a person from outside of the vehicle.
Megan Kay:Great tip. Yeah, awesome. So I feel like, if you know, I have all the knowledge I need now to go cut my Christmas tree for the first time. Thank you so much for coming on and sharing all your knowledge. Thank you, Tessa, for joining us and Jamie, as always, you're like, always have the best questions, the things that I don't think of.
Jennifer Diamond:I have a couple more that I just thought of. The cost is $5, $5.
Megan Kay:$5 for a Christmas tree.
Jennifer Diamond:Not bad. And then, if you do choose to use a power saw, make sure that you have a working spark arrester. It's required to have one. And then just make sure that you, if you have any garbage out there, and bring a garbage bag with you so that you're not leaving behind any litter. It must all be removed.
Megan Kay:Yeah, and yeah, the spark arrester, it just makes me think of what we kind of talked about off mic earlier, about how it's still dry out there, like we still we haven't had as much precipitation as I feel like people want. So, you know, keep in mind that the temperatures are still higher than normal, and it is still dry, and there is still potential for sparking a wildfire when you go out into the rangelands.
Jennifer Diamond:Absolutely. Yep.
Megan Kay:Well, that's all I had. I'd like to thank you all for being here. And do you guys have anything else you'd like to add?
Jennifer Diamond:No, well, if you do go out there and get a Christmas tree, you'll be sure to make a lot of memories, because I know every single time I've gone, it's a story to tell, and it's quite an adventure. So bring it out. Never know what's gonna happen.
Megan Kay:Thank you for listening to the Living with Fire Podcast. You can find more stories about wildfire and other resources at livingwithfire.com the Living with Fire Program is funded by the University of Nevada, Reno Extension, Nevada Division of Forestry, Bureau of Land Management and the United States Forest Service.
