Training the Next Generation of Wildland Firefighters

In this episode, learn more about the fire science academy at the Academy of Arts, Career and Technology (AACT) in Washoe County. Living With Fire’s Jenni Burr sits down with Spencer Eusden (Living With Fire Special Projects Coordinator), AACT students Lucy and Luca, and former lead instructor Jen Diamond (BLM Mitigation Education Specialist) to hear more about this high school program. 

For more full episode details including the transcript, visit

https://www.buzzsprout.com/1819551/episodes/18108363

Spencer gives an overview of the creation of the fire science workforce development program in partnership with Bureau of Land Management and Truckee Meadows Fire Protection. 

Lucy and Luca then talk about their experience as students in the fire science program. Lucy shares “I definitely think even if you're in this academy and you don't want to be a firefighter, it'll set you ahead for another career, because you learn so much about communication working as a team, because so much of the fire is working with someone like accomplishing a certain mission or communicating what you need to do.”

Finally, Jen Diamond joins and shares her perspective on the program and answers questions from Lucy and Luca about her career in wildland firefighting. Reflecting on the realities of the job, saying “I think the funnest part is having those away experiences. And the hardest part is also not being home and having those home experiences when you feel like you should be there.”

To learn more about the program’s partners visit:

·       Bureau of Land Management: blm.gov/Nevada 

·       Truckee Meadows Fire Protection District: https://tmfpd.us/

·       Academy of Arts, Careers and Technology: https://aact.washoeschools.net/programs/cte

·       Living With Fire: www.livingwithfire.org 

Transcript

Spencer Eusden: 0:00

Workforce development is like a big part of what kind of UNR has been doing, and extension is doing, because it's a great way of taking some of the knowledge and research that's coming out of universities and helping apply it into the public and community, which is that classic extension model.

Lucy: 0:17

I definitely think even if you're in this academy and you don't want to be a firefighter, it'll set you ahead for another career, because you learn so much about communication working as a team, because so much of the fire is working with someone like accomplishing a certain mission or communicating what you need to do. So even if you don't want a job in fire, all of those skills will help you so much throughout life, even if it's not in fire.

Jennifer Diamond: 0:40

And I feel like they're coming into this way more experienced than any other firefighter that comes in on year one. They've already have three or four years under their belt, and know all of the terminology, really, and the tools and the equipment.

Jenni Burr: 1:04

This is the Living with Fire Podcast. Brought to you by the Living with Fire program at the University of Nevada, Reno Extension. Hi. Welcome back. I'm your host. Jenni Burr, Outreach Coordinator for the Living with Fire program. In this episode, we explore a part of the workforce development that our program does. I talk with Living with Fire Special Projects Coordinator Spencer Eusden about the fire science program he developed in conjunction with the Bureau of Land Management, Truckee Meadows Fire and the Washoe County School District. This workforce development program is housed at the Academy of Arts, Careers and Technology, or AACT, a high school in Reno that gives students a chance to take specialized career and technical classes alongside traditional academic subjects. We talk with AACT students about their experience in the fire science program. Then we're joined by Jen Diamond, who answers questions about the students and shares her perspective on the fire science program, Jen is the state lead for fire prevention, mitigation and education with the Bureau of Land Management, and served as the lead instructor for the wildland firefighting portion of the fire science program the past two years. And now let's hear the episode. We're here today with Spencer Eusden who works as a Special Projects Coordinator with Living with Fire. So can you tell us a little bit more about what you do in conjunction with Washoe County School District?

Spencer Eusden: 2:46

Yeah, thank you. So one of the projects I've been able to work over for the last two and a half years now is the Fire Science Career and Technical Education Academy at the Academy of Arts, Careers and Technology. Here it's a public school in Washoe County School District, and we have a really special high school academy that's preparing a whole bunch of youth for careers in the fire service. And so how this really started was both Truckee Meadows Fire and Rescue and the Bureau of Land Management here in the greater Reno area have realized that workforce development is a big issue, and they came together in partnership with Living with Fire and the Washoe County School District to make this academy happen. And that started in the fall of 2023 and how it worked for the first two years is that in the fall, Truckee Meadows would provide instruction for about structure fire. And then in the spring, Bureau of Land Management would provide instruction about wildland fire. And what's really exciting right now is that for our first year, the program is big enough that Washoe County School District has hired a full time teacher who's a retired firefighter to be the kind of core instructor making this program happen. And we still have a bunch of support with guests from Truckee Meadows Fire and Rescue and guests from Bureau of Land Management coming in to make this program happen. A couple cool things today is that you're going to hear from two of our students, who are both juniors in this program, kind of sharing what this program is like and how it is shaping how these two young students are thinking about potential future careers in the fire service as kind of a way of showing you what's going on, this program and this approach to workforce development.

Jenni Burr: 4:37

Is it also the case that UNR is really interested in workforce development as well, or that extension is, is that?

Spencer Eusden: 4:46

Yeah, and so I think workforce development is like a big part of what kind of UNR has been doing, and extension is doing because it's a great way of taking some of the knowledge and research that's coming out of universities. And helping apply it into the public and community, which is that classic extension model, and that's kind of where here, like my background in education and work with Living with Fire, has been able to really help this program do all the great things we do. And my role in this program has really been to support our firefighter instructors, who know a ton about firefighting, but they've never taught teenagers before, and so we kind of use some of this, like understanding of education, to help make this program make fire careers more accessible to these students, as they're teenagers trying to understand what they want to do in the world, and what opportunities are there in the fire service.

Jenni Burr: 6:00

Today, we are with Luca and Lucy, who are students at the Academy of Arts, Careers and Technology in Reno. So can one of you start off and tell us a little bit about your school?

Luca: 6:14

So with our school, we have a ton of different programs that we've just gotten a few new ones, and we've had a few old ones. The Academy that we're in right now is fire science. It just recently started our freshman year. And so our program's already grown quite a bit.

Jenni Burr: 6:33

Tell us a little bit about the fire science program here at AACT.

Lucy: 6:37

Yeah. So we have, like, structure half of the year, and then a wildland half of the so for structure, we have actual like Truckee Meadows firefighters that come in and help teach us things, whether it's like about the trucks or about ladders or ropes and like lifts and carries and stuff like that. And then during the wildland section, actual BLM people come in and they taught us about different forms of communication, how to dig line and stuff like that.

Jenni Burr: 7:03

And if I remember correctly about these kind of special academies to get in, you actually have to apply to the programs, right? And so how did that go for you? Like, how? How did you decide that you wanted to kind of apply?

Luca: 7:18

So I found out about the school from my brother. And so when I went to apply, I applied for three different academies, EMR, arts and then fire science. When they responded like saying, which academies I'm able to go into, my only option was firefighting and art. I was like, I'd rather do firefighting.

Lucy: 7:40

So everyone like when they're applying, applies for three academies. So I applied for engineering, culinary and fire science. I got into all three, but I applied wanting to go into the fire science Academy. So for me, it was an easy choice.

Jenni Burr: 8:00

Are you an educator who would like to incorporate wildfire lessons into your classes? The Living with Fire wildfire science curriculum is designed to help youth understand the role of wildfire in Nevada ecosystems and learn how to reduce their household's wildfire risk. Find out more at livingwithfire.org. Now, so Lucy, can you tell us a little bit about the fire

Lucy: 8:29

The fire science program is kind of split into like two science program? semesters, so like at school. So the first half we do is structure fire, which is more like houses, like the classic firefighters you see with, like, the big red trucks and the ladders and everything like that. And the other half of the school year is the wildland side, where it's like, you learn how to dig line and then, like, throw hoses and all kinds of stuff like that.

Jenni Burr: 8:51

Nice. Luca, do you have anything to add to that?

Luca: 8:54

Um, so with both wildland and urban, it gives us really great job opportunities for when we're older.

Jenni Burr: 9:03

Yeah, for sure. Yeah. And just out of curiosity, as you're exploring both sides, do you find yourself drawn to one more than the other? Or are you pretty open to pursuing either of them?

Luca: 9:16

I think pursuing both them would be my ideal. There's not many stations that actually allow it, or like that are made to be able to do both. But what I'm going for is trying to become a wildland and urban firefighter.

Jenni Burr: 9:33

Yeah, and Truckee Meadows Fire Protection District, I think, has some of those kind of people, right?

Lucy: 9:39

Um definitely, I'm more interested in structure. I'm not Yeah. a big hiker, which is a main part of wildland, but both, like you get such great opportunities with this program to learn about both of them. So it's like, even if you're less interested in, like for me, wildland, you still learn so much about something where even while doing structures, things you learned for wildland might. Come into play so.

Jenni Burr: 10:01

Yeah, that makes a lot of sense. So let's start with Luke. How did you become interested in a fire related career?

Luca: 10:08

Um, as a kid, I was always kind of like going through what careers I'd want to be. So I went between like artist to veterinarian to firefighting. Um, the reason I got into firefighting is because, where I live, there's always a lot of fires on the hills, and so I'd love to, like, watch all the fire trucks and all that roll in and take care of the fires. And I just thought it was super cool.

Jenni Burr: 10:33

Lucy, how about for you? How did you get interested in fire?

Lucy: 10:37

Um, so, like, before I thought about ever being a firefighter, I kind of also wanted to be vet, but um, and when I was, like, in like, elementary school age my grandparents' house burned down. And so like, my whole family and stuff like this, kind of had to watch it burn down. And so, like, from then, it's kind of like what I wanted to do because, like, the sitting there watching is just like, you want to do something, but you can't, yeah. And so, like, it kind of just, like, spoke to my interest in it.

Jenni Burr: 11:00

Yeah, that's definitely a compelling reason. Yeah, and to want to maybe help others to not have

Lucy: 11:03

Yeah. that happen. So Lucy, what has had the biggest impact on how you view jobs in the fire service? Um, I mean, so for like, each side of fire, there's different jobs you can do. So for like wildland, there's like different jobs, like fire investigating in something that's not really as big a thing in structure, at least, like now that we've learned about yet, I guarantee there is. But for both sides, there's just different, like, different careers you could have, like another part of fire, which isn't like exactly on it. But you can do dispatch, or you can do something like that, which automatically would help fire in a different way than being directly on it.

Jenni Burr: 11:46

Yeah, definitely, yeah. So kind of the careers that are adjacent to.

Lucy: 11:51

Yeah

Jenni Burr: 11:52

Adjacent to fire itself.

Luca: 11:54

The biggest impact on how I view the job was when I went to the AD camp and I got to see how all the roles worked together.

Jenni Burr: 12:03

So can you tell us what is the AD camp?

Luca: 12:05

Oh, um, so the AD camp is this camp crew where if you sign up, you'll you'll be working with BLM, and you'll be put on a list where you can get called out nationally. Um, so when I was on there. I got to go to the Connor Fire in Reno, and then I also got to go to the Turner Gulch Fire in Colorado. You could go anywhere. We almost got called out to Alaska, actually.

Jenni Burr: 12:32

And so what was your experience when you were in the camps?

Luca: 12:35

So at the camps, our boss, Dan, will get a group of 10 people, and we'll get sent out to the fires. And for two weeks, we'll be working there. We'll be sleeping in tents. And the main jobs that we're going to be doing there are working with supply, handing them out to the firefighters at their request. We also work with the reefers, so we're handing out water, Gatorade and ice, oh, and box lunches. And then we also do a lot of cleanup after the firefighters. So we don't leave the places messy or anything.

Jenni Burr: 13:08

Right because the camps, they just sort of build.

Luca: 13:12

Yeah.

Jenni Burr: 13:12

Like they're mostly kind of tents and not really, truly buildings around, yeah, so I would guess there would be a lot of cleanup to do. And, like, was it fun? Like, did you meet a bunch of people?

Luca: 13:24

Yeah I've met a lot of people. When you go there, you're gonna meet a bunch of different people who have all these different kinds of skills. And while you're there, you just make really good friends with them, and you kind of just teach each other stuff. So while I was at the Turner Gulch camp, I was taught how to make arrowheads. I learned how to play hacky sack. There was one other I forgot.

Jenni Burr: 13:47

Nice. Sounds fun. Yeah. So something that's a little different here at AACT is that you have actual professionals coming in and teaching you some of the skills, right? So, how was it different to have a firefighter or a wildland firefighter, teaching your class versus a kind of standard teacher.

Luca: 14:07

I think it was a lot more easier to learn the units because we have actual people with experience on the job. We get to learn things firsthand, show see how it was from their experience, rather than having a teacher just kind of babble on about this and that without being able to see it in real

Lucy: 14:29

like they're students. But when actual people would come life. in, we'd kind of get treated more like we're adults, and like we'd have, like, you have to behave, like, in this like world, it's just that you have to do it's a serious job, and you have to take it seriously. And so, like, it was really nice to be treated kind of more like we're trying to do something, and not just like we're at school trying to, like, learn math or something, like we're learning something to potentially. Like to get a career in which is, like, important and something that takes seriously so.

Jenni Burr: 15:04

Yeah and does it help with some of those other classes that are, like, mandatory, like, can you see connections now, or not really, between, like, some of your other classes and fire science?

Lucy: 15:14

I mean, maybe in chemistry a bit. But I do think having this class that, like, we all, like, chose to have, along with the classes that like your first like have to take, like, the ones that like are needed. It definitely makes the day easier, because you have those classes that, like, you're really excited for, so like you're waiting to get to those. So then, like, you can just get to that today.

Jenni Burr: 15:36

And does it feel a little bit like you're taking a step towards like, your future, instead of sort of like feeling like you're treading water, and just like putting in time to check off that you like have graduated.

Luca: 15:49

Um, I think with this class, it definitely helps us move forward a lot faster than what we'd be doing if we started when we got out of high school or college. It gives us, like, a really big head start. It's preparing us for rookie school. It's preparing us for the hardships, the fun, all that.

Jenni Burr: 16:08

And does it also kind of tell you some well it sounds like it does, like, where it gives you some different options of pathways. And then, does the program actually help you connect in with like, kind of that next step?

Lucy: 16:20

Yeah, I think so we learn a lot about, like, TMCC's, the community college around here, their fire academy, which we can, like, apply for after high school, which is then, like, the next step to be able to go to, like, work in a career in structure fire. But I definitely think even if you're in this academy and you don't want to be a firefighter, it'll set you ahead for another career, because you learn so much about communication and working as a team, because so much of the fire is working with someone and getting like accomplishing a certain mission or communicating what you need to do. So even if you don't want to job in fire, all of those skills will help you so much throughout life, even if it's not in fire.

Jenni Burr: 17:05

Partnerships are at the heart of the work we do at Living with Fire, the fire science program at the Academy of Arts, Careers and Technology, highlights how the work we do with the Bureau of Land Management and Truckee Meadows Fire helps educate Nevadans and promotes workforce development to learn more about our partners, visit blm.gov/nevada and tmfpd.us Joining us now is Jen Diamond with the Bureau of Land Management. Jen, can you please share a little about your role at BLM and how you got connected with the fire science program.

Jennifer Diamond: 17:44

Yeah so my Fire Management Officer, who is the Fire Management Officer for all of Nevada BLM. His name is Brock Uhlig, had an idea about bringing a wildland fire academy to high school, and so we worked closely with AACT and partnered with them, and worked with Living with Fire to build a curriculum and just slowly started bringing it to life. And so I was the lead instructor for the first two years. The second year I had another instructor with me because the classes grew from one to three classes, I'm sorry, from two to three classes. And yeah. So I kind of taught the curriculum that Living with Fire Spencer Eusden built, and we just kind of kept incorporating fun, hands on activities and building off of ideas, off of each other, almost on a daily basis.

Jenni Burr: 18:41

Yeah, so probably kind of grew organically through

Jennifer Diamond: 18:42

Yeah.

Jenni Burr: 18:42

Probably where you'd think you'd try something and that first year, especially. then expand on it, or decide that wasn't.

Jennifer Diamond: 18:51

Yep.

Jenni Burr: 18:52

Gonna happened next time.

Jennifer Diamond: 18:53

Yeah.

Jenni Burr: 18:54

What's it like to work with the students in the program?

Jennifer Diamond: 18:57

It was fun. I mean, I know I have kids that are, well, now they're 17 and 19, but when we started this program, I believe they were 16 and 18 or 15 and 17 and so, yeah, I felt like I could, I could relate to them a little bit. And each kid has their own personalities and strengths and weaknesses, just like we do when we're working in fire or on a crew, right? Like they have their own little personalities. And you can see some of them take on that leadership role immediately, and some of them, you know, being more of creative maybe, or maybe some of them being more physical or so it was really cool to just kind of see them, you know, utilize their strengths there and build upon their weaknesses, and then also just seeing them grow so much from year to year, like right now, I just walked in the room and saw Lucy, and I was like, Oh my gosh, I haven't seen her in a while. And was like, You matured so much just watching them change. Physically and mentally, and it just made me think about fire in a different way that I had never thought about before. Because when I tried to kind of relate to, you know, a 14 to 17 year old brain, it definitely made me think about things differently, and they, you know, taught me stuff too, right? So I think that it was a huge learning experience for me teaching kids, because I've taught fire classes before to adults that are signed up for this and are choosing this path 100% this is like, what they're going to be doing. And so that was the experience I had with working with students before they were adults, and so working with 14 to 17 year olds definitely made me think about things differently. And you know, just the maturity level, you know, isn't quite there yet. And so just trying to make it relatable and fun and engaging was different.

Jenni Burr: 21:03

For sure.

Jennifer Diamond: 21:04

But you know, we're all students of fire. We say that all of us, no matter how many years of experience you have, so this was part of that for me, still.

Jenni Burr: 21:14

Did that also change, like, how you interact with some of the younger crew members that are coming on, like, thinking about like those 18, 19, year olds, where they're not that far off of kind of the upper end of high school.

Jennifer Diamond: 21:26

A little bit like this year. So I run with a complex incident management team. So those are the larger incidents. And I am a section chief for public information officers. And there was a couple of younger you know, 22 24 year olds. And I was like, Oh, my God, I used to be one of them, and now I'm old. Think about like, how to communicate in a understandable way, but, but yeah, I guess a little bit.

Jenni Burr: 22:01

And Jen, one last question for you before we turn it over to the students. What advice do you have for people interested in getting jobs in wild on fire?

Jennifer Diamond: 22:10

Yeah, I think that there's everyone kind of tends to think, oh, physical, physical. I need to work out and you do like you need to train pretty hard where you are, you know, running, hiking, weight training, eating healthy, taking care of yourself. I feel like that's a huge part of this, right? But I think that a lot of the times, people don't recognize the mental aspect of it. And I think that it's it's pretty even there for me, right? So of course, the physical part is going to keep you safe and keep you, you know, able to keep up and do your job and be able to cut line and, you know, carry heavy things. But the mental part of it is you have to want to kind of be part of a community, right, and then also be away from home, like you can't really train for that, right? So a lot of people, their first or second roles out there realize that, you know, you don't have the comforts of home. You know, I was just gone for probably 50 something days this summer, and, you know, there's no running water.

Jenni Burr: 23:21

Yeah.

Jennifer Diamond: 23:23

You don't flush a toilet.

Jenni Burr: 23:24

Yeah.

Jennifer Diamond: 23:25

You don't have soft toilet paper. You don't just open a refrigerator and get food. You don't lay in your bed. You don't have your dog. And so I think, you know, and that's hard for I think, these students to understand, between the ages of 14 and 17, you may not have experienced that, or know what that would even be like to to miss that. So I, I do feel like, um, mentally, it's it's just as much of a challenge as as it is. Physically. I do also think that so for some advice is just the crew cohesion that you get and the camaraderie that you get is you are in it all together, and it does feel like a great team effort and like celebration in some ways, that you are making a difference and that you are maybe, you know, protecting your community or somebody else's so just being a part of that is is a reward.

Jenni Burr: 24:25

Definitely. 84% of wildfires nationwide are caused by people. If you're planning on heading out and enjoying public lands, visit nevadafireinfo.org and learn how you can recreate responsibly and do your part to prevent wildfires. All right, we're going to turn it over to Lucy and Luca to ask Jen some questions that they have for her about wildland firefighting.

Lucy: 25:00

So like, what originally made you want to be a wildlands firefighter?

Jennifer Diamond: 25:05

I had no idea what I was getting myself into, to be honest. So I was 18, I moved to Tahoe, and I saw a flyer that said, Do you like hiking and do you like camping? And I was like, Yeah. And they were like, take these classes, and I wanted to be a firefighter as a little girl, but I only knew the red trucks. I didn't know about wildland and so when I saw, do you like hiking and camping and then you want to be a wildland firefighter? Was like, okay, like, I really didn't know, really what it was like you guys get to learn for three or four years in their classroom about all this stuff. Like, I didn't know what I was getting into, but it sounded cool, because I was like, Oh, I get to travel too, and they'll pay me all right. So I took those classes. I actually, I got tonsillitis, and I took those classes still, because I was, like, my only shot, and I I had a Bronco, which I still have. It's my son's now, but, my Bronco broke down, and I had tonsillitis, and I had to ride my bike to these classes, and I could barely breathe. I had a fever, like it was so awful, and like, sit through these classes. And so back to the mental part of it, right? Like I was like, I could do anything for a couple weeks, right? So, yeah, I didn't know what I was getting into, but it just sounded fun because it was physical and I got to travel. And, yeah, wildland firefighting was something I really didn't get to learn about, like you guys are getting to learn.

Luca: 26:35

What were the hardships that you had to go through while achieving this job, and what were the fun part?

Jennifer Diamond: 26:41

Oh, boy. Well, so I started when I was 18, and then I had my first son when I was 25 and so, you know, I had just, I was a seasonal employee before I had my son, so I couldn't work once I was pregnant, right? I didn't have insurance and things like that, so I was in really good shape, and used to being gone and working and traveling and working with I was on a fire use module. I was on engines, also hand crews. Then I just had to, like, stop, right? I was pregnant and I had two sons, and and then I ended up going back to firefighting. And so it was just so different after that, right? It was all about me before, like, oh, just be physical, have fun, do all these things, and now I have two babies, right? So I think my hardships were finding the balance of still trying to, you know, provide for myself and my family the way that I was used to doing before and physically, I had lost some of my strengths right after having kids. So I think that that was different. I think that's not a lot of, you know, men don't go through that part. So that was challenging for me to just kind of try and get back in the game and in, like, find the balance of being a mother and and doing this, this job, and still trying to, you know, find, like, a career ladder for myself too to where I could advance and not be stagnant, you know, other than that, I feel like, again, I just think, you know, there's challenges of being away from home, right? So that's my hardship, and that's part of, I think, my challenge there. And then what was it? It was my hardships.

Luca: 28:39

And fun parts.

Jennifer Diamond: 28:41

And it's the same, right, like, it's the hardest part is being gone sometimes, and the funnest part is also being gone sometimes. But like, I think, you know, the places I get to see and meet and all over the US, and the experiences that I got to have and that I'm still having too. But you know, I remember my first helicopter ride was in Glacier National Park, and I was on the fire use module. And I had read and seen about this little granite chalet up there that people pay to, you know, go do for the weekend. You know, where I was flying in a helicopter and getting to go, I was getting paid to do that. So, you know, the funnest parts are those experiences of, you know, being with your friends. I mean, that are more like family, because you spend sometimes more time with them than you actually do your friends at home or your family. So you become very close. But yeah, I think that the funnest part is having those away experiences. And the hardest part is also not being home and having those home experiences when you feel like you should be there.

Luca: 29:50

Um, how hard was it to advance positions in wildland?

Jennifer Diamond: 29:54

Oh, well, for me, you know, I told you about, like, having kids and stuff, so, like, there was a different you know. Like pause a little bit for me that maybe others won't have, but I think that for you, I would say like to not be in a hurry, right? Because you don't know where you want to go or what path you want to choose. You just kind of have those experiences, and then you start getting to see those different opportunities. So yeah, I feel like I just kept seeing my next opportunity, right? So I am the type of person where it's like, I might have, like, this larger goal in mind, but really like the steps that it takes to get to that larger goal I don't always have planned. It's mostly like, Oh, I see that. I'll try that. And how do I do that and apply here. And we'll see what happens. And so I feel like I was pretty fortunate that my path led me to where I am now. You know, having having my two sons, I ended up going into recreation for, I think it was just half a summer, because I thought, Oh, I'm not going to leave my kids and get back into fire right away. But I so I went into recreation, which meant I was just kind of going in and out of campgrounds, taking the fees, hanging signs, making public contacts, cleaning the restrooms, and then my old crew called me back because somebody quit, and they asked if I could jump back on the engine. So my intentions weren't to go back into fire right away, but, but I did. I got called back, and that was 2009 and so that little stint that I did in recreation actually helped me get my next job when I came here in to Reno, because that job, part of that job, was making public contacts and hanging signs, which I couldn't put on my resume before being on the crews and the engines I didn't really, you know, get out and make all these public contacts, and I had to be able to write tickets, and which I started doing as a recreationalist. So, yeah, that opportunity came because I, you know, did recreation for a couple years. So then that's where my patrol job was, a combination kind of of of fighting fire with with the recreation background, even though I only did it for half a summer, but that's what helped me advance into my next role there and then, yeah, I feel like just kind of, you know, having a big network and working hard, just kind of kind of made my next connection into my next move that I was going to make, or my next job I was going to take, and just building my resume. So I think I got kind of lucky with just the decisions that I made as the opportunities arose.

Jenni Burr: 32:55

Do you feel like in your time, this little aside, but in your time, do you think that wildland fire has become easier for mothers like you know, are there things in place now that weren't maybe, when you started that you think would make it easier to be a mom who's firefighter, or is it still.

Jennifer Diamond: 33:15

I think it's still challenging. Yeah. I mean, yeah, there's still, like, you still have to try to find care for your child, or have a good spouse that is willing to have that flexibility and not knowing if you're not coming home at nighttime, there's still, I think there's still the same challenges, yeah.

Jenni Burr: 33:33

And as you kind of alluded to, it's not the same, probably, for fathers as it is for mothers. In a lot of ways.

Jennifer Diamond: 33:39

I'm shaking my head, no. I mean, they have their own challenges, right? They feel like, you know, they have their different feelings of not being there and missing out on birthdays or events or weddings and anything. You know, they still have their own like, kind of mental thing that they have to go through.

Jenni Burr: 34:00

The life that's continuing at home while they're on a fire.

Jennifer Diamond: 34:03

Yeah, yeah.

Lucy: 34:05

So like, what do you think is the most rewarding part of the job?

Jennifer Diamond: 34:09

Oh, you know, I'm gonna go back to the community feel like, I feel like, you know, knowing that, you know, you put in line, and it held there, and it didn't reach a community. Or, you know, now in my public information job, you know, getting positive callers that say, Thank you for saving my community, kind of feeling, or, you know, even being part of like a fuels reduction project, and knowing that the reason why Firefighters were able to engage safely in operations were because we put that fuels reduction project in there, and the fire slowed its progress when it reached that fuels reduction project, and firefighters could engage now and safely fight fire. You know, those are a bunch of like, I would say, just wins. You know that feel that feel good.

Jenni Burr: 35:02

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Luca: 35:44

How long did it take to get into the position that you are now in wildland?

Jennifer Diamond: 35:49

Well, I started in 99 and it's 2025 so you know, 26 years.

Lucy: 35:57

Is the like position you are now, something that like you could start off in, or is it something you have to work

Jennifer Diamond: 36:02

It's definitely something you have to towards? work towards. So, I mean, you could, you know, definitely have a degree and start off at a higher it used to be called a GS, a general pay scale, but just recently they changed it into a wildfire. You get like GW now, because we're considered maybe wildland firefighters now. So I think you could probably start off maybe at like a GS five or something like that now. But yeah, I started at a GS three.

Jenni Burr: 36:35

And typically with like the federal service, it takes you at least a year to advance to the next level with there's some jumps, but you know, so that gives you a sense, and just because you can, like, if you're minimally qualified, doesn't mean you actually get the job. So it can take longer.

Jennifer Diamond: 36:51

Yeah, and then when you're seasonal, so you know, in the beginning, you might only work six months out of the year, so really, you have a GS four for at least two seasons before it adds up to one calendar year. So yeah, I mean, it took me 26 years to get here, although there was a couple of years that I took off because I was having my boys. But each GS level takes a little while to just kind of feel like you're established and you are ready for the next step. I encourage this for an opportunity, for sure, but just be open minded to other opportunities that may come along your way. Like, for me, the reason why I got to where I am is because they're just kind of kept being like, Oh, I'm gonna take that opportunity, or, yeah, I'm gonna try this out, or I'm gonna set my mind and I'm gonna really shoot for this. And so for you guys, I feel like that can be in or outside of fire, just there's gonna be opportunities that come and don't, like, be closed minded to anything, because, you know, you gotta kind of weigh it, and be balanced in your decisions. But, like, I think it was a good choice for me, and it worked out. But I think that it's not for everyone either. Like I said, being away from home and, you know, it's, uh, that mental grit where it's hot, it's dirty, you're not taking a shower, you're not eating the food that you want to eat. Like, there's things like that that just isn't for everyone, and that's okay, you know. So I think Luca experienced maybe a little bit of that on the fire camp crew. Maybe not like personally, but you got to see other people maybe not love it as much as you did, or vice versa. And so yeah, and that's okay, because I'm not cut out for some other jobs that are out there like I would never be able to do that, you know? So I think that experiences are good, and I'm happy that you guys are in this class and getting to learn because if anything if you don't choose to end up being wildland firefighters, you know, what is being put into the effort when there is a wildland fire, and what is happening in your community, right? Versus sitting on the couch watching the news. You know, just kind of telling people how they should fight fire. When you have no idea, you guys will have this background knowledge with knowing what we do and understanding what's happening in your community.

Jenni Burr: 39:35

Jen, how do you think this program is helping with the recruitment of future wildland firefighters?

Jennifer Diamond: 39:41

I think it's great. I think, you know, now we have four classes. Let's say there's an average of, you know, 15 students per class ish, I know those numbers are off a little bit, but there, if there's even just one or two out of each class, right, that that's, that's a win, and I feel like they're coming into this way more experienced than any other firefighter that comes in on year one. They've already have three or four years under their belt, and know all of the terminology, really, and the tools and the equipment, and so I do think it's helping. But you know, like when I was chatting with Lucy and Luca earlier, it's just like, if they don't end up getting jobs, that's okay, because now they're going to be homeowners one day. And like, just be better educated on what wildland fire is. Because I think a lot of people, you know, see the red trucks and think that that's, that's firefighting, but, you know, there's a different kind of firefighting that they're learning about here with wildland. You know, the other aspect to recruitment is, I don't know that we're going to be able to tell right away, because, you know, my first year teaching here, there was only one senior in that class. And so they graduated and didn't choose a wildland fire route. So the next year, I think there are three seniors, maybe, and so they, one of them, went into military fire, some sort of fire route with the military. And then, you know, this year would be our third year, and I'm not sure how many seniors there are this year. So you know, as we kind of keep building the program, like, we won't really be able to tell until we're at least in our fourth year, and we're having 15 seniors graduate.

Jenni Burr: 41:36

And probably, realistically, you're probably looking at, like, 10 years until you have a real feel for impact.

Jennifer Diamond: 41:42

Yeah.

Jenni Burr: 41:53

Thank you for listening to the Living with Fire Podcast. You can find more stories and resources about wildfire at our website, livingwithfire.org. The Living with Fire program is funded by the Bureau of Land Management, the Nevada Division of Forestry and the US Forest Service. And we're managed by the University of Nevada, Reno extension, an equal opportunity institution.